Glad I was able to help and I'm sure you'll narrow down the culprit. Sounds like you and your son are also gaining some valuable tech troubleshooting skills as well. You'll find this information translates to more than just PCs =)
Good luck and hit me up if you have more questions.
It wasn't legal then either.
You're totally missing the point... they don't know if you are a business, one guy with 5 PCs, or five people with their own PCs .
If you think Microsoft would not do something because it was a '**** move' then clearly you have no idea how they got where they are.
I'm not sure how to word this without sounding like a jerk so please don't take this the wrong way. You're throwing hardware at a problem you don't fully understand. Since you don't have the budget to keep throwing parts at it until it's resolved I would advise that you do not buy anything yet.
There's a lot to cover, I don't know your skill level, but here's some things to consider and figure out.
What do you mean by... "lag" ? When someone says lag I immediately think network latency and problems associated with high ping, packet loss, and intermittent communication issues. However I realize some people say "lag" and what they are talking about is low frames per second or delayed response to input from keyboard / mouse. Is this an online game? Because if it's not then it's not really... lag... IMHO; it's a performance problem on your end. If it is online then it may very well be lag, as I think of it, and may not even be under your control. You need to first figure out if it's a network problem or a computer performance problem. This link can help describe the difference: http://www.howtogeek.com/142193/htg-explains-why-lag-and-low-fps-arent-the-same-thing/
A lot of games let you somehow access your ping and frames per second (FPS) in-game; see if you can get that... if your ping is over 150 you're getting in to "lag" territory but anything over 300 is really bad and that would be 'laggy'. Ping isn't everything through; you can have a great ping but have intermittent packet loss or if you're on wifi you can get interference or low signal. Some games like Planetside 2 will show you your ping, the server's ping, and your connection quality. That way you can see a case where your ping is low but your connection quality is bad which means packetloss or you can see your ping and connection are good but server ping is high which means it's the game's server problem and nothing you can do about it.
I see you listed a WIFI network adapter. Switch to a direct ethernet cable connection to your access point (router, modem, whatever). Even if to just test it as I know it's not always feasible to run a cable. When you try it over a hardwire does it no longer have lag? If the lag goes away you know it's your wifi; fix the problem. Change channels, get a better antenna on your PC, get a signal booster, etc. etc. Also see what he's doing; does he have a bunch of stuff running that takes network bandwidth? If he's anything like my kids he's got Steam in the background with no throttle set that's downloading stuff constantly and freak'n YouTube running in full HD in the background playing 10hour version of Heman theme song remix while they play Team Fortress 2. Set Steam to only use 512kbps, close YouTube and BOOM more RAM, CPU cycles, and network bandwidth available!
Wifi is very prone to interference (well... most of the bands people still typically use). What's in-between his antenna and the antenna on your access point? A TV? Microwave? Is it clear across the house? Lots of walls and on a different floor? All of that stuff will severely hamper your wireless signal. You can use wifi analyzers to see what's going on. I use one on my smartphone to troubleshoot stuff like this. Are his speakers right by his antenna? Could be something a simple as that.
Is it even YOUR problem? Many times my wife is like "OMG the internet is slow!" I go and try a couple websites our connection is fine on my computer. It's the web page or the game she's playing that's slow... the server you're talking to or the networking in-between you and your destination has problems. Nothing you can really do about it. Is your son playing some game hosted on another continent? It's not unusual anymore to be traversing half the globe for a service. Do ALL games have "lag" ? If other games play just fine but this game is laggy then try to figure out why. If the laggy game is hosted in a country 2,000 miles away but the games that work just fine are all based fairly close to you then maybe that's it? Is the lag intermittent or is it always the same? Network connectivity isn't a constant thing. It fluctuates, has spikes, gets disconnected, comes back and never really tells you if any or all of that happened (unless you're actively looking).
Is it really a hardware problem? If you determined that internet or local network performance isn't a factor and that it is indeed your computer then start digging deeper there. Make sure the game (or any other game) isn't running and try to close down apps you clearly see are running. Open up Task Manager (Start > search Task manager... or right click on your task bar 'Task Manager'... google it .... ) and click on the Performance tab. This is a quick high level view of your computers performance. How is your RAM utilization? How is your CPU utilization? If your RAM is over 3/4 used and you're not even running any games then you have a problem. It would be easy to say "just download more RAM!!!" but is that REALLY the problem? I would contend the problem is you have too much crap running and need to get rid of anything you don't need. Buying and installing more RAM will let you load up more crap but won't make your computer any faster; in fact it could have the opposite effect because you've loaded more stuff that the other hardware can't really keep up with. It could make your computer faster IF you are 'swapping to disk'. So if your RAM is almost all being used, then you open up this game, it tires to use RAM you don't actually have then Windows starts 'swapping' stuff from RAM to your hard drive to make more room. Your hard drive is vastly slower than your RAM and thus the whole system slows waaaayyy down. That would be a significant performance problem and not a network "lag" problem. In that case; yes more RAM would help BUT I would still argue that there is too much stuff installed and running and your ultimate resolution would be to get rid of that stuff.
Lets look at it from the CPU utilization point of view. How is it doing? Without any games running... is it hovering around 50%? Higher? That would be terrible and I'd see what you have running that's actually using all that CPU constantly. Usually your CPU is bouncing around single digits but when you need it then it ramps up to 90-100% until that task is done then it goes back down to "idle". Now you should have closed most everything and your computer should only be doing background tasks. If you have a bunch of tabs open on this web browser; well that may be the culprit... kill all the tabs but this one. Did that do anything to your CPU and RAM usage? In Task Manager now click on Processes tab to see everything that's running. Click on the CPU column heading to sort it so the processes using the most CPU are on top. It will bounce around but do you see any culprits here? Something staying up there constantly using 20+ % CPU usage? Find out what it is and see if you can get rid of it. When you're playing a game you'll see the game will have a process running here at the top; that's fine as that 'task' doesn't end until you close the game and games use all the resources they possibly can. What you're trying to do is lower your baseline... the amount of stuff running all the time before you even load up a game.
If you read all this and are like "OMG WTF are you talking about dude?!" then find your tech savvy friend / family member and show them this or talk to them about these things.
Good luck man; you'll figure it out.
Do you need a full setup with all peripherals ? Monitor, mouse, keyboard, headset..
Do you need an optical drive?
Do you need Windows ?
After doing some research I'd have to pass on this build. For about the same amount of money I could get an i5 6500 and an RX 460. I realize you shifted the money around to buy a larger SSD which is nice. Would rather have the horsepower than capacity though.
Your build sheet was a good prompt to think about something different and do some research. Thanks!
Thanks for your input and no problem; I'm not in a big hurry. Waiting for Black Friday deals anyway.
You do NOT need $80 headphones. I've had several nice sets around $20; over ear, good sound quality, and a descent mic. Spend that money on a GPU with more than 3GB VRAM or even a keyboard.
Nothing against this build; it's a good build sheet. Just my perspective on the capacity of the primary drive.
As someone who has a 120 GB SSD... it's tough to live with. By the time you get OS + "core" software + a couple of games it's "full" Let me qualify these statements. By core software I mean things like modern GPU "drivers" are bloated software suites, also sometimes your audio "drivers" are bloatware, web browser, TeamSpeak, software for your mouse and keyboard, Voice Attack, streaming software, graphics/video/audio editing software etc. etc. None of them alone are that much but it adds up quickly.
By "full" I mean it's not totally filled to the max but rather it's to the point where you can't install another game. Modern games are uuuuge. The MMOs I've played in the last few years range from 18 GB to 40 GB. At most I can have 3 big games installed at a time. If that's all you play, like me, then you're fine. If you're like my son and have 100 games installed and play a dozen regularly you'll end up putting most of them on your slower HDD and not reap the benefits of the SSD for those games.
Yeah you can get by with 120 GB on your primary drive but you have to be prudent with your consumption, selective about what you install, and vigilant in cleaning up things like your downloads folder, various caches, and temp folders.
Just checked out some stats and spec comparison; totally agree.
That said... throw an i7 build on here and lets see what you can put together. I'll take a look at it; thanks!
I like it; thank you for putting this together.
What do you think about the GTX 1050 Ti vs. Radeon RX 470 ?
Seems like a solid build; thanks! Love the size of that SSD; seems almost too good to be true.
What do you think about the GTX 1050 Ti vs. Radeon RX 460 ?
Also curious why you went with the i5 6400 instead of the 6500?
I think you hit everything nicely; even the case. Thanks!
i5-6500 would be fine. A system is more than its' CPU. Having faster RAM, FSB, GPU, SATA replacing her IDE, SSD instead of her slow HDD etc. etc... it will be a world of difference.
I spent wwwaaayyyy less than $750 but it's a long story and not really relevant... I'm not spending $1,000+ on a system. This is the budget I have now. Hoping Black Friday though may be able to boost my budget!
Your kung fu is strong! It's not hard to find good deals on individual parts... the hard part is finding deals on compatible parts to build a system.
Did you first build a system spec sheet and then vigilantly look for deals on parts? Did you just have a rough system build in mind and look for compatible parts ?
Thanks! Pinkie Pie is pretty awesome :D It's actually pretty nice case too. Build quality is above average, lots of fans, logical placement for ports like USB and headphones.
Cool story but too bad this is a windows gaming box not a linux audio encoder.
"...yeah, I see that..."
That's SO what my daughter would say too... with a look on her face that made you feel even more inferior.
Yeah so far he doesn't seem to care. Only real 3D games he plays are TF2 and Minecraft. The rest are all these weird over head strategy games. I was more interested in the experiment of building him the FX 9320 and myself the i5 4690k because there was soooooooo much conflicting info out there that it was hard to really discern what the real difference would be. He couldn't care less at this point.
I told him if he ever feels like it's too slow for a game we can start by buying a new cooler and overclocking it. If that's not good enough... he can save up for a better GPU =)
aka your dad
Sweet build and love the name
Rest of the build seems legit.
I can't get Sildrus working in Hexxit but I did get SEUS Ultra + Optifine HD working in Hexxit. Looks amazing and still runs great! Thanks for the suggestions on shaders; didn't know Minecraft could look so good.
OK I guess we're talking different things then. I'm comparing my i5 4690k to my sons FX 8320. Plenty of ppl were touting around forums and websites about how they are nearly the same and I'm just not seeing it. Some would swear up and down the 8320 was better at everything. They usually had stupid arguments like "8 cores, nuf said" so I didn't give them much credit. I just thought they would be more similar.
Lots of benchmarks put them neck and neck even the FX pulling ahead in things like compressing and encoding. However it's just not what I'm seeing in actual use. There were a few ppl in some forums who ran both and said there was no competition but they were few and far between. I guess I'm one of them now =/
The 8320 is great... for the price or the right, specific, workload. Just not the workload most ppl are doing.
I did some more research.
Only game I can find that uses more than 4 cores is BF4. They didn't test the FX 8320 or my i5 4690k but lets just look at the 8350 and 4670k
FX beat it by 2 FPS; hardly "killed" it. Then factor in the 8320 is less powerful than the 83050 and my 4690k is more powerful than the 4670k; it would loose... at best be a tie.
There were a handful of games that use 4 cores but no more. Hard to find comparison benchmarks but nothing showed the any FX out performing any i5.
Maybe I've missed something? Link me some benchmarks or list some games where the FX 8320 will outperform the i5 4690 or even the 4670. I really do want to test them and see how they work on my sons PC.
Ill play with those settings.
What shaders and resource packs do you run? I've never set up Minecraft with all those and vanilla isn't exactly resource demanding. We run a lot of mod packs but not shaders.
Please be specific; what games exactly can I test to see the FX "kill" an i5 ?
I would say intake; feed cool air to your GPU and let it exhaust it out the back.
No vents on top so looks like your only choice is in the front and out the back. Front fan should be sucking in clean cool air and hot exhaust should go out the back.
It's better but not crazy awesome. I can at least run games on Ultra but only pulling 60fps with barely anything going on then when stuff really starts happening it goes down to 25 and 30 fps. Like when you got a bunch of dudes shooting, explosions, particle effects... impact is huge to the FPS.
Where as on my i5 with the same GPU... I still rock out 60 or 70 fps. I guess I"m just expecting too much out of the FX 8320.
You'll have to do your homework on cases. This was a few years ago.
My point about the case fans is this... if 15 dbA is acceptable to you then you can open up your options a bit on CPU coolers. If that's too loud then you've got to compromise aesthetics for noise and pick new case fans and still find a CPU cooler. Doesn't matter to me which way you go. I just didn't want you to spend all this time finding the quietest CPU cooler and be annoyed with the noise level because your case fans weren't as quiet.
wow what a bunch of self aggrandized douches. I think thehy really know the problem is Micro Center can easily kick their *** in prices and frequently do; they just mad bro.
I was non too impressed with New Egg return policies and expenses. Last thing I needed to return would have cost me $35 in shipping and a huge restock fee; wasn't even worth it... I wouldn't have even got half the money back on something I accidentally purchased that was new in the box never opened.
Yeah I'll double check before using New Egg in the future. Micro Center or Amazon Prime are way better and more customer friendly options.
Have you seen this one? It's a little louder than the NH D-15 but looks better:
Cooler Master RR-V8VC: Not as quiet but hot damn does it look sweeeet!
I dunno why they put those fugly tan fans on the NH D-15 but it's damn quiet. I have it sitting on my desk about 20" away and barely hear it. The D-15 was no picnic to mount for me either. Everything was easy up until mounting the main heat sink to the brackets and that was a big PITA. I had to re-do the CPU paste twice since I had to pull it off and re-try mounting twice.
Keep in mind the max noise level on that Dark Rock is actually higher than the D-15. It's quieter at low speeds though.
The case fans you chose are twice as loud as your CPU cooler. So you're fretting a lot over the CPU fan that you won't hear over your case fans. You're going to hear them humming away all day more often than your main CPU cooler. Only time you'll hear the CPU cooler is under heavy load and I'm assuming then you'll have the headphones on rock'n out =) GPU will top out around 35 to 38 dbA under full load as well.
Also have you thought of a different case? A case can make a huge difference in how much sound you hear outside. Something more air tight with filters perhaps? That would dampen sound a lot. These wide open plastic and metal cases are just echo chambers. I remember my friend had this all aluminum case with filtered vents. That thing was super quiet, very solid, and a pleasure to look at.
Seems like you're focusing too much on the CPU cooler. If noise is such an issue it's a more broad problem that needs a comprehensive solution. Buying a super quiet CPU cooler and slapping in other loud components in a case that's probably just going to magnify the noise isn't helping much.
Love that white case!
While I don't have direct experience with these integrated GPUs I do have over 10 years experience dealing with past generation integrated GPUs.
A common drawback amongst all of them is they have no dedicated VRAM. They use your system RAM. Thus you're sharing precious system RAM with your integrated GPU that could otherwise be used elsewhere. Now you're also running more traffic through your bus in and out of your system RAM.
Then again you could do an A10 build and save for a GPU later. That would put you ahead performance wise but still spending more money; just not right now.
I guess it's up to you if you want good performance now or defer that until you get a better GPU. Not really any terrible decisions here; just different options.
They are always bare minimal. Fine for booting up windows, watching videos, and light gaming on low...maybe medium... settings. It's basically the 'better than nothing' option.
The research I have done tells me the AMD A10-7850k has, for an integrated GPU, respectable performance. isaborders1999 has a pretty good analysis; I think he's spot on. Bang for your buck and accepting your next upgrade will be a total tech refresh... you're better off with the Pentium G3258 + an R9 270 than an A10-7850k using only the integrated GPU.
Neither ... he's saying one build you selected an optical drive and the other you did not; that's the only difference. The Samsung DVD/CD Writer is the optical drive.
Then he explained you could spend a little over $10 extra and get a lot better GPU.
Looks good man! I love my white NZXT case; it's white on the inside which reflects light making it easier to work in there.
Good choice on deferring the SSD and upgrading the GPU; you won't regret it.
Reinstalled OS; formatted with clean install. Reinstalled with all new drivers. Some improvement in 3Dmark tests but not as much as I hoped for.
I'll be doing some game testing soon.
3Dmark - Firestorm
Overall: Before=5198 : After=6047
Before=6911 : After=7201
Before=6616 : After=6871
Before=1635 : After=2540
3Dmark - Skydiver
Overall: Before=16047 : After=15930
3Dmark - Cloudgate
Overall: Before=13956 : After=16236
Before=34688 : After=44295
Before=4514 : After=5047
Yep; everything else looks good man.
SSD should be low priority IMHO. Does not effect FPS. Most people can just wait a few minutes to load up stuff.
It's kinda the cherry on the top. You can still have a sweet rig w/o one.
I just made HIM re-install OS and all drivers =) Good experience for him; first time doing a total software rebuild.
Just got done running all the benchmarks. I'll compare now and see if we fixed anything.
Ya an SSD in Bumblebee would be a huge improvement with load and boot times. Maybe next Christmas =)
Ah nice; just jack into some big screen TVs... That's awesome!
Yeah I'd take your rig over any laptop!
Yeah you hit the classic "smaller = more money for the same stuff" issue. Hopefully it pays off in it's portability because that was the whole point of going small and spending more.
Why do you need to move it around so much? Do a lot lf LANing? How about display / monitor? Is that compact and mobile too?
Neat build; I do like it. Just not my thing. However I can appriciate the effort and quality build.
Seriously need to quit posting new topics. You have one good discussion already going on this build; stick to it.
I think you're kidding yourself if you belive the APU build (or Intel for that matter) will stream / record and play any game worth streaming. Personally wouldn't base my building decisions on that. The Intel is a very competative build option.
I think you're splitting hairs on the differences here. You'll have to let video encoding / rendering the job run over night on either build so who cares?
Saved 5 minutes on the Photostream Total Time benchmark
I think that's rather telling here... you're talking a difference of minutes in rendering and encoding; not hours. The point is that it's not like the AMD is going to finish the rendering / encoding job so much faster than the Intel that it's worth throwing it out as an option. Neither one is going to do it fast enough frankly; you'll be kicking off a job and coming back later in which case who cares if it's 5, 10, or even 30 minutes difference in a job that took 4, 8, or 12 hours?
There are 62 total bench marks on that page. 32 of them the AMD one. 16 of those were comarping integrated GPUs. To me it's a moot point on integrated GPUs because you can build an Intel + comaprable GPU plus no longer share system memory. So really the AMD only beat the Intel in 16 out of 62 bench marks.
To be fair... the vast majority of the bench marks were so close that it's splitting hairs IMHO. So I think your reasons for ignoring the Intel build are uninformed. It's a very competitive build and better in more ways than not.
AMD A10-7850K =
Intel Pentium G3258 =
Handbrake 2x4k: FPS
Intel Pentium G3258 =
AMD A10-7850K =
x264 HD Benchmark - 2nd pass: FPS
Intel Pentium G3258 =
AMD A10-7850K =
Hybrid x265, 4K Video: FPS
Intel Pentium G3258 =
AMD A10-7850K =
I had a Core 2 Quad build with better GPU than anything talked about in here. I could barely stream + play games like Planetside 2, Arma 2 + DayZ mod, Star Craft, etc. I did quite a bit of video capture, editing, encoding, and uploading to YouTube. Also decoded/encoded videos on my computer to DVDs. It took many, many, hours to encode a DVD; had to run it over night. High quality encoding for YouTube again took many hours; would let it run while I was at work.
My point is.... the CPU I had in that thing out ranked both the G3238 and 7850k by a wider margin than between these two CPUs. Neither one is going to be a rockstar at any of the tasks you're throwing at it.
The Steelseries Merc Stealth is ... super boss. Has a button to cycle between red, blue, and purple back lights (or you can turn it off). Such a quality board to; really takes the abuse with no visible wear and tear.
The dedicated gaming section on the left has been a noticable improvement to my in game skill. No joke! Ergonomics and being able to easily reach more keys is skill boost.
I still can't belive people force their hands to use a keyboard in a way it was not intended to be used. Finally... someone just move the keys you want over to a postion and layout that is comfortable and easier to use. Like... duh... why didn't someone think of this back when we were cramping our hands playing Mech Warrior and Quake World?!
I have a Steelseries Merc Stealth and not only is it the most phenominal gaming keyboard I've ever used it also has 3 back light options; red, blue, and purple. YOu hust hit a button on it to swtich. Then there's three brightness levels plus a setting to turn it off.
SATA is SATA... it's all backwards comaptible. I don't think you'll have any problems. There are corner cases with compatabilith between HDDs and MBs but I don't think you're near any of them.